idiotsavant
Reged: 23/08/2006
Posts: 38
Loc: Surrey
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OK, maybe not drug free, but Sastre's winning time in the unofficial time trial to the line was two minutes slower than the record set by the coke and dope-fuelled Marco Pantani, well-known cheating bastard.
Marco Pantani's time of 39'29" was recorded in 1997. Sastre only managed 37'35", the slacker.
Worth noting too that Evans et al, were two minutes slower again than Sastre.
Anyone know the average speed for the stage?
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"Shut up, stop moaning and get on with it"
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dang
Reged: 16/06/2006
Posts: 451
Loc: twixt 7 & ?
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Quote:
Anyone know the average speed for the stage?
34.32kph
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idiotsavant
Reged: 23/08/2006
Posts: 38
Loc: Surrey
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Seems quite quick. I was watching the telly showing old clips of 'great' moments. The Alpine stages of the Tours from Delgado-Roche (1987) and Hinault-Lemond (1986) showed averages of 30kph and 32kph for Alpine stages.
Then the same prog showed a clip of Armstrong sprinting up the hill at Hautacam in 1999 (?) winning in an average of 35.3kph. Not that I'd suggest anything untoward was going on there, obviously.
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"Shut up, stop moaning and get on with it"
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El_Cid
Reged: 02/08/2007
Posts: 871
Loc: Ilkley, Yorks
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Good, steady average as CSC rode tempo on front all day - did you not see it?
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"TODAY, WE RIDE"
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Smokin_Joe
Reged: 09/06/2006
Posts: 1677
Loc: Fishguard
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The bikes they ride today are far lighter than those used in the eighties, with more gears to help keep a rythym too.
20lb was a lightweight when Roche and Delgado were racing, they have to add weights to meet the minimum requirement of just over 14lb now.
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Nobody ever got laid because they rode Shimano.
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idiotsavant
Reged: 23/08/2006
Posts: 38
Loc: Surrey
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No, I didn't see the whole stage, just the highlights.
I know its a bit dubious to compare average speeds over long stages since there are so many other factors that can affect the outcome, but this year's mountain stages have reminded me of pre-EPO Tours of the 1980s.
Guys attacking, getting 100 yards and coming back, swinging, breathing hard, crossing the line utterly fuucked. Makes me nostalgic, looks realistic.
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"Shut up, stop moaning and get on with it"
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scm
Reged: 24/06/2006
Posts: 1229
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Quote:
Marco Pantani's time of 39'29" was recorded in 1997. Sastre only managed 37'35", the slacker.
Er, isn't 37'35" nearly two minutes faster than 39'29"? 
But I'll grant you that Sastre took 11 years longer. 
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Ranger
Reged: 29/06/2006
Posts: 380
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In the 2004 alpe d'huez TT Sastre covered the 13.8km climb in 39'54".
4 years later in a stage after 2 cols and over 5 hours of racing he records a faster time. Hmmmmm!
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scm
Reged: 24/06/2006
Posts: 1229
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Proof positive (oops!) of the value of a good warm-up! 
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thatwomanagain
Reged: 30/07/2006
Posts: 1959
Loc: Hugh Porter country...
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Quote:
In the 2004 alpe d'huez TT Sastre covered the 13.8km climb in 39'54".
4 years later in a stage after 2 cols and over 5 hours of racing he records a faster time. Hmmmmm!
Don't forget that back in 2004 Sastre's primary role was to support his team leader, the slimey Basso, in the mountains. It wasn't his task to turn himself inside-out in an individual time-trial, it was his job to preserve his energy for his day job. To do otherwise would have been a grave tactical error and worthy of a clip round the ears from Riis!
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idiotsavant
Reged: 23/08/2006
Posts: 38
Loc: Surrey
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OK, in all the excitement I switched the times. You know what I meant!
I'm touched that so many people are still looking for excuses and explanations about why riders were able to fly up mountains in France that don't revolve around bizarre blood chemistry. The bikes were lighter! Of course! No drugs were involved.
Here's the 1997 stage that Pantani won with a record speed ascent that still stands. Look at the names of all the riders in the top ten and see how many have subsequently been done/implicated in various blood doping horror stories.
1997: Stage 13, Saint Etienne - L'Alpe d'Huez, 203.5 kms:
1. Marco Pantani (Ita) MER 5.02.42 (avs. 40,336 km/h )
2. Jan Ullrich (Ger) TEL 0.47
3. Richard Virenque (Fra) FES 1.27
4. Francesco Casagrande (Ita) SAE 2.27
5. Bjarne Riis (Dan) TEL 2.28
6. Beat Zberg (Swi) MER 2.59
7. Udo Bolts (Ger) TEL 2.59
8. Roberto Conti (Ita) MER 2.59
9. Laurent Madouas (Fra) LOT 2.59
10. Laurent Jalabert (Fra) ONC 3.22
True, there was only one minor climb before the Alpe, so the average stage speed isn't a lot of use here.
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"Shut up, stop moaning and get on with it"
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Ranger
Reged: 29/06/2006
Posts: 380
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Quote:
Proof positive (oops!) of the value of a good warm-up!
I'd like to hope that yourself and twa are right!
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Smokin_Joe
Reged: 09/06/2006
Posts: 1677
Loc: Fishguard
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Quote:
I'm touched that so many people are still looking for excuses and explanations about why riders were able to fly up mountains in France that don't revolve around bizarre blood chemistry. The bikes were lighter! Of course! No drugs were involved.
We know there were drugs involved and speeds increased because of it, but shedding six pounds from a bike on a mountain stage is also going to make a considerable difference to how fast you can go.
Try it.
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Nobody ever got laid because they rode Shimano.
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James70
Reged: 09/11/2006
Posts: 397
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Maybe I'm naive, maybe I'm stupid, but isn't it obvious from just watching the riders that they're all very different creatures from 24 months ago?
I wouldn't put €1 on any rider being completely clean after the last decade of decadence, but it now looks like a completely different sport. Compare Valverde now to Valverde in 2005. Anyone remember him out-sprinting Armstrong at the top of Courchevel, going like a rocket?
Compare that to Valverde (post Fuentes, ahem) 2008, in the sprint at the top of Prato Nevoso; he came to a complete standstill! It was also great to watch him take 5 minutes to bridge a 20 second gap between the Kohl and Evans groups.
All very believable, perhaps for the first time since 1991 (or roundabout). The best thing is, no one knows what's going to happen next - even the riders.
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Don't confuse independent thought with the rantings of a bitter old man
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CrazyIvan
Reged: 18/07/2008
Posts: 50
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I agree with you James, and hopefully it is the unknown that will prevent cyclists from trying to dope up. Ricco will hopefully be a warning to the rest that maybe you will get away with it, but maybe just maybe you wont and I hope that the negative side to getting caught is hopefully starting to deter the Ricco's of the world.
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